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My guess is you may get a response by asking for the update in that thread. I know it wasn't at Bally's G2E's booth in September which would indicate to me it wasn't a hot game for them. In comparison, Free Bet was present again (is that 2 or 3 years in a row?), with a new side bet.

Geoff's pot of gold sidebet was a great addition. I liked it much more than the push 22 sidebet.

Good report Mosca!! Indicating that you had fun playing even with the dramatic swings/variance & low hit rate in the game is certainly a positive. Player experience is the key driver of a game's success regardless of the math.
I think the key question is whether you are going to come back and play again?

Borgata is a 3 hour drive, and I wouldn't go ANYWHERE for a specific game. If Criss Cross cane to my home casino, I'd play it, but for $5 instead of $10.

The hindrance to repeat play for most players is the high hold rate. If you feel like most times you play a game, your bankroll gets whacked, it is tough to keep coming back to play. I think that is what MrSuit31 is alluding to in his remarks. Players are willing to lose money given the right player experience in return.....and that secret sauce is the illusive mixture every game developer is trying to include in their games.
I agree with MrSuit31, from my developer's perspective, the math doesn't make the game look like a successful formula. That being said, you can look at a game like UTH with a hold rate typically over 30% for most properties and think that is too high to succeed as well......yet it is the hottest game around in my opinion. So it all comes down to player experience.

Although I presented counter arguments to MrSuit31, I respect his experience as a game developer and agree with him, the game does have a rather formidable hill to climb. In its favor, for some reason it has a really strong hook. It creates the itch, then scratches the hell out of it.

When I played a few hands at G2E, I came away saying the game was difficult to deal and their is a lot of my bankroll units on the felt in order to see if I won. Now my sample size was small and it wasn't like we had a trained dealer at the table......it was a 'model dealer'.

Notice in my report that two different dealers paid 10s, one of them with a supervisor watching and agreeing verbally with the pay. And the supervisors weren't the regular pit bosses, they were there specifically to watch the game get dealt. One of them (not the one who paid 10s) even said, 'Okay, I'll watch a couple more hands and then you're good to go on your own.' Regarding the bankroll, I'd like to be able to fold halfway through and play what I'd already posted.

Time will tell as the game has some traction with over 15 installs as of the AGS press release pre G2E. I am sure they have secured additional installations since October. The game is out there and now will be voted on using players bankrolls......frankly, that is all you can ask for as a developer. Get it out there and let's see what the players have to say.

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Yep. If it dies, it deserved to die regardless of what I think about it.

Borgata is a 3 hour drive, and I wouldn't go ANYWHERE for a specific game. If Criss Cross cane to my home casino, I'd play it, but for $5 instead of $10.

I didn't realize that you were so far from home when you played Criss Cross :-).....the fact that if it was at your home casino, you would play is a one vote for game and that is what I was trying to ask.

Notice in my report that two different dealers paid 10s, one of them with a supervisor watching and agreeing verbally with the pay. And the supervisors weren't the regular pit bosses, they were there specifically to watch the game get dealt. One of them (not the one who paid 10s) even said, 'Okay, I'll watch a couple more hands and then you're good to go on your own.' Regarding the bankroll, I'd like to be able to fold halfway through and play what I'd already posted.

I was attempting to indicate I agreed with your observations on the dealer difficulty based on what I had seen. What is really crazy is that the game is holding at a high rate despite the dealer errors in the players favor.

Yep. If it dies, it deserved to die regardless of what I think about it.

But what you think about it is a much better indicator than what a developer (e.g. me) thinks about it based on math analysis, experience, etc. The players, and that means you in this case, determine the outcome :-).
i am going to have to sit down with this one again and play a some more hands........want to see if my opinion of the fun factor changes on this game and if that is enough to outweigh the big swings. I will say that Miss Stud is a better game for me since I was forced by a friend to sit down and play it live. Of course I won, which always helps, but regardless, it was a better experience than I expected. Maybe the same will be true for Criss Cross....I'll be in Vegas in early Jan so perhaps I'll head over to Planet Hollywood and give it a try (I think that is where it is installed).

While everyone agrees 'only time will tell', perhaps it's time to rewind to One for the Money. It was opened January 2014. It has been over 10 months. Perhaps Barb wouldn't mind sharing the placement experiences.

Edit: I had posted an update here, but I think it's more appropriate in my earlier thread, as someone else suggested, so please read here if you're interested. Thanks!

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This is an old thread but I thought I'd add that they recently brought this to Mt. Airy in PA, and I played for about 20 hours straight. It was a very fun game- and I feel like I have a good sense for what draws people into MS stud, LiR, etc- not playing against a dealer is something people like, with opportunities to raise and win big. Four of a kind in this game is better than LiR. I feel confident this game will stay, and spread.
You do almost need it to be at $5 minimum though, given that you have five spots on the table (six if you include the bonus that everyone plays) and optimal strategy has you playing all the way through the vast majority of the time...even a mid/low card in the hole is playable, unlike MS Stud. It remained at $5 at Mt. Airy on a saturday night when every other game was 10 or 15 and up, even MS stud.

Did U win or lose after 20 hours? If U did not lose 'enough', casino operator would not be happy to see this. What I am trying to say is that this game might not last long in that casino, if all players liked the game and couldn't lose playing 20 hours. On the other hand, if you were one of the few lucky players on the table, then it's OK.

Did U win or lose after 20 hours? If U did not lose 'enough', casino operator would not be happy to see this. What I am trying to say is that this game might not last long in that casino, if all players liked the game and couldn't lose playing 20 hours. On the other hand, if you were one of the few lucky players on the table, then it's OK.

I was lucky enough...had three full houses in that interval, two community and one my own. A lot of people lost.

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Did U win or lose after 20 hours? If U did not lose 'enough', casino operator would not be happy to see this. What I am trying to say is that this game might not last long in that casino, if all players liked the game and couldn't lose playing 20 hours. On the other hand, if you were one of the few lucky players on the table, then it's OK.

At Borgata it has the highest hold percentage of any table game. Everyone bets everything all the time.

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